What? Very sensual music. Who is the other guy with Flame--M'grill? Don't understand.
Oh my! The guy in the plaid shirt said God's name in vain and Jessa seems very uncomfortable. This does not seem Dugger (if that's a word lol) to me. Love the show tho
Why does Jessa look so orange?
To much spray tan.
Well, since it is winter, I would say Jessa's skin color is some self tanning lotion. It doesn't look good. It doesn't look good on Jinger or Anna either.
Is this who Ben wants to align himself and his family with? The man in the plaid shirt says God's name in vain. The woman is wearing tight pants. Those are not things that Jessa would be comfortable around. If Ben wants to "rap" then he should do things his way, not bring his family around such influences.
I thought I heard the guy with the hat take God's name in vain too. What's up with that? Very disappointing.
Ben is head of his household. Isn't Jessa expected to submit to her husband in all things? She is now Jessa Seewald--not Duggar.
Then Ben as head of household is making bad decisions and not respecting his wife's values and upbringing.
Guys, it's a christian rapper, please don't go overboard with all these worries!
Where did you get that her pants were tight? She didn't even stand up.
Why does Flame keep saluting? Kind of the same salute Ben did at his wedding.
Akward...Ben and Jessa are WAYYYY out of their element. It seriously made me uncomfortable watching this LOL! Adopting a thug mentality to reach people with a good message isnt ideal....rap is a genre born out of a culture of violence and death. Christ ate with sinners, he didn't act like them...
What exactly is a "thug mentality"? Please tell me more about the origins of rap music being born out of "a culture of violence and death"? Your post is very condescending and judgemental. We all are sinners so to say Christ didn't act like them is making it seem like anyone who raps is a sinner and the seewalds shouldn't associate with "those" people, when in reality we ALL are those people - sinners.
I couldn't have said it better myself, Monica! We are all people of God and his children. It is God's job to do the judging, not ours. And just remember, that yeah the guy used God's name in vain, but none of us know his story or how much he has grown or how new he is to the faith. We all have growing to do, some more than others! As for the whole thing that these people are acting like sinners, I disagree. These Christian rappers didn't adopt this culture, it is what they grew up and the culture that they know best. So, please, please, remember that these people are just people like you and me and that they are truly only human. Whether you agree or not, this is what they feel that God is calling them to do, to reach out to the people that they know best, and not a single one of us should be pointing fingers at someone and telling them that it isn't what God is calling them to. If what you say is true and they are not being "christian" it is our job to love these people, and the Lord's job to show them what he wants them to know! (Trash talking and judging does bring people to Christ)
It makes me terribly sad.....just really sad. :( To actually see and hear rap music going on (supposedly Christian) and Ben (not sure what Jessa is thinking because she didn't say much) seems to totally approve??? Such a shock for me. That is not worship music. Just not at all. I'm praying for them all to see the truth. God be with you.
I don't understand this fear of the outside world that some of the commenters here have. If your heart is pure and you live life and make decisions according to your principles, what's wrong in exploring the world and finding beauty in those who are different from us?I just think that the true believer shouldn't be so scared of the world. If I have Jesus in my heart I should feel safe and I should also be able to try and see the positive aspects in everything I do. ;)
It's against everything the Duggars ever said & showed, that's what's so shocking. So was all that purity & piety just for show?
How does rap fit in with the duggar life style. The reason why I enjoyed the duggars because they were not mainstream
It's the Seewalds lives here. Not the Duggar life-style.
It's not the Duggar lifestyle. Jessa is no longer a Duggar, she is a Seewald and answers to her husband, not her father.
I wish Jessa answered to herself Before answering to any man, husband or father.
Many episodes ago, we watched a little Jackson (I think it was he) wiggle to a child's toy producing music. JimBob was quick to stop him stating the Duggars do not listen to music with a down beat. So, now they can, not only listen; but participate in rap music??? I need clarification, please.
Those were Jim Bob and Michelle's rules. Jessa is now a married adult. She and Ben can determine their own rules for their family.
That's not quite the way it happened. One of the TLC camera/producer crew members found Jana and said, "I thought your family didn't dance?" Jana had not been around Jackson while he was dancing, so she went and asked him what he had been doing. The cameras then closed out that scene and moved to a background interview with Jim Bob who explained that music affects our behavior and this is why they are careful about the type of music the listened to. Perhaps Jana did tell Jackson not to do that anymore, or perhaps she simply told the crew member that it wasn't a big deal. We don't know, because the cameras didn't show that part. Jim Bob was not part of the scene as it was playing out. Jessa has left home. If she wanted to listen to rap music now, I seriously doubt that her parents would try to stop her. It looks to me as though she doesn't care for it and was trying to be as gracious as possible.
A married woman, with a child...I am assuming she can "participate" in anything she wants.
Ben, Jessa, and Spurgeon are their own family. Simple as that. :)
Jackson is Jim Bob's child. Ben is not. They have different beliefs.
Josh, Jill, and Jessa and their spouses were all reported to attend the Alive festival. This is contemporary and rap. http://www.duggarfamilyblog.com/2015/03/duggars-in-oh-tn-and-tx.html
The reason they don't dance is because for single people, it stirs up desires that can't be righteously fulfilled. But if a child is dancing, how would that "stir up desires?" That's not very Christian thinking to think that a child would be doing something that would stir up desires in someone, such as an adult. So why wouldn't childen be able to dance?
Actually, it was JimBob who spoke to Jackson right in the toy are isle.
It was Jill, and she said show me what you were doing, after one of the camera guys pointed out that Jackson was dancing
I think it's great Ben is getting involved with something like this! Music has a way of evoking the gospel and getting messages across! But,I thought the duggars didn't listen to music with a rhythmic beat because in Michelle's very own words " it could stir up desires that can't be righteously fulfilled"....Does this not apply to Jess's and her family since jessas athourity ( her fathers rules) has been transferred to ben now? I'm confused.
According to "leave and cleave," Jessa is no longer under her father's authority.
No...JimBob has no authority over Ben whatsoever. Ben is the head of his household he started with Jessa. I understand how you would be confused as anyone who marries a Duggar appears to only obey JimBob. So very wrong. I'm actually happy to see Ben stepping up to be the lead in his family with clearly separate ideas and interests.
Hmmmmmm..... I'm really surprised and shocked that they would do this with them and condone Christian Rap. Just because it is "Christian" Rap, doesn't mean it's good.
Just because it's "rap" doesn'the mean it's bad.
Likewise, just because it's "rap" doesn't mean it's bad.
Have you listened to Flame's music? I have and he's one of the very few artist that preaches the gospel, very directly might i add. Don't judge because its different. Besides, once your married, your considered an adult and coukd make your own decisions, which is what they are doing. I find his music refteshing compared to all of the Christian alternative music thats out there. (which i like too, by the way!)
Rap is rap no matter what and it IS evil. I was surprised (and disappointed) to see Jessa and Ben there. I think Ben liked it, but Jessa, not sure, hope not. I have noticed a big change in the Duggars even from a year ago. Just look at Ben, he could be mistaken for a celebrity sometimes with what he wears and the girls are wearing shorter skirts, above the knee, and they actually look like fashion models sometimes. :( I`m thankful that Jill and Derick seem to be staying the same except Derick`s hair and beard is getting pretty long.:(
Now what's the problem with long beard?The Duggars are, by the way, celebrities for all intents and purposes: they are on tv with a reality show and have been for over 10 years. Reality shows are the most mainstream things in this day and age. ;)
So sorry to say that was pure torture to watch, I couldn't even finish it...and Jessa looked so uncomfortable. This season is not doing to good.
Agree. Jessa looks miserable--and Ben is not a rapper. I am in favor of all types of Christian music as I believe if the intention is to reach people for the Lord then the Lord knows whose hearts will be touched by it. However, Ben and Jessa trying to be rappers...just not happening.
So did not expect this of them.
so, so disappointed...I understand that once one leaves the "nest", they can make their own choices as to what music they listen to, who they hang out with, how they dress, beliefs, etc. But, this really surprised me with Ben and Jessa. Rapping in the name of Christ is so contradicting to what God says in His Word. While there are no specific rules as to the types of music we should listen to or sing, there are Bible principles that say we should not be of this world; Christian and secular shouldn't mix to win the lost. Christ Himself didn't use worldly methods to teach others. This clip also made me wonder if the rap group is trying to gain popularity by being on the show....once again, so disappointed because "as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he." Those who we spend time with influence the way we think. Honestly, I think the Duggars are a pretty good Christian family, but they have been in the public eye way to long. It's really damaging and heartbreaking. Their view of being a good example to the world is not effective right now. I really wish the best for them....social media/publicity is worldly and the world has no good intentions for this family.
The Bible also says that ALL things have been created by God and for His purpose. That includes rap music.
No, I don't agree that God created rap music. Rap is sensual and evil.
So are dangerous drugs created by God for His purposes? This statement doesn't make sense. Bad things are not created by God.
I think Jesus used bery wordly ways to teach. He used to contradict traditions and scriptures all the time. When he cured a man on a saturday he made it very clear that the most important aspect isn't the rule, but the humanity of the person who was suffering. Just as an example.Sorry if I didn't use proper terminology from the scriptures, but english isn't my first language so I didn't study these things in english.
How do you know God didn't create Rap music? That's just your opinion. Nothing else. God created the entire Universe. Have you ever heard the rhythmic beat and beautiful dances to African drums? Have you ever seen the Hula being performed as Worship? The Hula Girls were definately swaying their lovely--God created--forms in one of the most moving times of Worship to our Lord I have ever had the privilege to be part of. You said bad things aren't created by God. I agree. Rap isn't bad unless people make it bad.
God did not create drugs. People do. He created herbs and plants for healing purposes the natural way. What people do to these plants for unnatural purposes is not what God intended.
Sorry Rap Music is of the devil ,does nothing to draw the Holy Spirit even before I was REBORN I knew RAP was not fit for the Soul.GOD'S WORD says . BE YEA SEPARATE OF THE WORLD. Take this to the LORD he will reveal the truth. Love from Canada.
So i guess Gospel, Christian alternative, anything that praises our lord with a beat, right? His music isnt like most rap music, he exclusively talks about the Gospel. Why are ppl judging something that they themsleves haven't even listen to.
Rap music can most definitly be Christian. There are lots of Christians rappers: Lecrae, Tobymac, Capital Kings and many more. Thanks
Rap music is of the devil? Where in the Scriptures does is say this?
AMEN Anon 9:53!! Thank you!!!!!
As a Canadian, I am ashamed of you. No music is from the devil. It is just music, people expressing themselves.
This'll be a neat episode, although I won't be able to watch it since I'll be on a plane back to Ecuador when the Episode airs. I guess I'll just have to wait until it's available somewhere else.Thank you so much Lily and Ellie for keeping all of us global fans updated.Cheers all the way from Minnesota!
Jessa appears very uncomfortable. I also noticed she has started doing that "staring at your husband" while he is speaking thing. I feel like she is losing her spunk--that bit of sassiness--that made Jessa fun and interesting. Is Ben wanting a career with rap music? I thought he was going to finish seminary school?
Just because someone likes rap music doesn't mean they want to make it their career.
I think he's just interested in modern ways to preach.
Yes...that's true. Not understanding the comment?
Ben looks like he is having the time of his life!! Jessa--not so much. Jessa looked bored and couldn't get out of there fast enough. Ben appears much more open to different ideas and cultures. I hope Ben continues to pursue his dreams.
Happy to see Ben and Jessa is spreading their wings in their Christian walk! It will only make them better!
Can someone please explain the line "to die is gain" to me? Is it really preferable to die, according to Christianity, than to be alive? Thank you. --A longtime fan of the Duggars
This comes from Philippians 1:21. The whole verse says "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." The apostle Paul was saying that while he was alive, the point of his life was to serve Christ. He was a prisoner for preaching about Christ, and if he were to die, he would gain something even better than life, and that was to be with Christ in heaven.
When we die to self figuratively and choose to follow Christ we gain eternal life with him. He promises that even though we will die physically someday (unless the Rapture happens first), when we are in Christ we will not die spiritually. That's the short version. I hope you dig into the Bible and find good biblical teaching to grow in your understanding of Christ and His Word. Blessings.
I think in order to understand this, you also need to take the first part of the verse into consideration, "To live is Christ..". So basically, we live to the glory of God, and when we die, we are in His presence (believers). It's a win-win and takes away the fear of death so we can live in His freedom.
Is it just me or does Jessa look completely lost? Does Flame tour? Does he have any CDs?
She is lost and uncomfortable. Stepping outside our comfort zone is a good thing. Educates us and opens our mind to the real world.
Ben is very young, he still needs to find his true self and obviously wants to lead his life the way he wants, not the way the Duggars want, which is right as in many ways, he is still a boy.. Jessa's world will now be quite different to her family's, but as they taught her to say Amen to all her husbands wishes, she'll just have to follow. Best for this couple would be to leave the family compound, away from the control and influence of her parents and away from the public eye.I'm sure Ben will otherwise suffocate and lose his own identity.
Ben wants to take the pulpit by storm and reach young people by any means necessary. However, he doesn't realize how ill-prepared he is to do this. Hanging out with rappers is not going to teach him wisdom. It's like he's taking what's in his heart and trying to mold it into something that it will never be. People can tell when someone or something feels forced, and that turns them off of the message trying to be delivered.
Ben should be true to himself and not live the Duggar lifestyle. The part about them being away from the public eye though-- I think both Ben and Jessa like being television personalities. I think they like the public fame. Problem is, I don't think it's very good for their young family or for their marriage. I agree they would do better away from the public just living private lives.
I am surprised any of the Duggars would approve of rap music, Christian or otherwise. It has a very suggestive beat to it. I remember in an early Duggar show, one of the little kids was reprimanded in a store for dancing to music from a child's toy.
The beat is the best part!!!
Ben and Jessa are Seewalds. Their activities do not need to be Duggar approved.
Flame salutes like Ben did at his wedding. What does it mean? Is it a rap thing? A military thing?
Jessa looks a little uncomfortable... music, dancing, an unchaperoned woman - what would Michelle and Jim Bob think!?
The woman doesn't need to be chaperoned if she isn't dating one of those guys in the Duggar's eyes. All people should be able to stick to their faith and beliefs, even when confronted with people who are not like them. It's not their job to change other people's ways, but to just stick to theirs.
I thank God if Ben is helping to introduce his sheltered wife to new experiences. It's wonderful to experience things outside your comfort zone sometimes. That's how we grow! Some people on here are very closed minded and that makes me sad.
So we should go hang out with rappers? Is that what you do, Heidi?
I think that hanging out with rappers would be awesome!
I think it's great they are expanding their horizons on music. Yes, Jessa looks uncomfortable. Probably because she was admonished for listening to music like this her whole life so this is all new and different for her. But she is supporting her husband, as she should. Jim Bob and Michelle made their own way when they got married, and so should Jessa and Ben. I think it's wonderful!
At 1:07 Flame says "Oh my God". That is unusual to hear in a religious family or church community. Jessa does NOT look impressed with anything that's going on. She looks confused that Ben is enjoying this, and it looks like she's thinking "I do not know this man at all. Who did I marry? What is happening here?"
Actually, Flame says, "Oh my gosh."
I think it's 'oh, my gosh', which I realise is similar, and derived from the word 'God'. I actually say it myself, not thinking anything of it. Well, I say 'Gosh' in exclamation, or 'Oh, my goodness'. I think if you wanted to pick on it, most of those type of exclamations can be decried as semi-blasphemous, eg. 'oh, my word/goodness/gracious/whatever else, as they have all derived from 'God/Lord etc. We have to remember that the root meaning of blasphemous is to speak against God.
I heard it as oh my gosh, not God. I know some people still have issues with that, and avoid saying it myself, but I don't see that as the same. :)
I know. Poor Jessa-she looked a little lost and quite uncomfortable.
It was QUITE clear last night. The man in the red shirt definitely said God, not gosh. "Oh my God." Listen to the clip again.
I heard it on the show as "God." Will have to go back with closed caption on to see what the words say, but it sure sounded like "God," and he said it quite deliberately, not like it slipped out.
Did Jessa say something about her feelings about this on the episode? By only reading her body language or expressions we could be very wrong about what she was feeling or thinking.
I think it is great that Ben is trying new things. They are still young, and young people expand their hobbies/likes and try new things. If he raps for a little while and doesn't like it, nothing is lost. If he does like it, he gains something. Saying rap music is bad just because it's rap music is incorrect, because they are songs in all genres that are bad and good. Just because Ben and Jessa's way of glorifying the Lord is different from their parents, does not mean that it is not good.
Wow, what talented people! Can't wait to hear the finished song. :)
Christ didn't use worldly things to prove Gospel? Enter Mary Magdalene. Women wearing tight jean? Oh no! What a judgemental lot and not very Christian like I'd say. Under her dads authority and now Bens? She's her own woman. It's not the Duggars that are making me cringe but rather most of the above statements. Live your lives people and let them live there's.
I so get you!! Rahab is on the direct lineage of our Savior Jesus--and she was a prostitute! Not much more "worldly" than that! So sad..Christians are the most critical, judgemental, busy-bodies. That's far worse to me than some Christian Rap music.
I grew up in a conservative home and can understand some of the shock from people about it. But I've also been thankful for how God has allowed me to be in positions that has let me see from different points of view. I have to say I so appreciate the sincerity of these guys and their hearts. God is an out of the box God and works in people in different ways. It's not our place to judge how God is going to work in someone else's life. Though I don't care for rap myself I would LOVE to get a chance to sit down with these guys to talk. I think it would be so encouraging, considering their desire to see God glorified (which I feel is evident in the clip). I loved the clip. :)
This is such a positive message!
Thanks for the awesome comment!
Looking forward to watch Ben rap! Ben is so into this, so great to see!
I`m shocked....This is not the Duggar family I thought I knew. And what about their strong Christian values? It`s very sad to see what is happening to them.......
Again...Ben and Jessa are Seewalds---NOT Duggars. No Duggar approval is necessary!!
If Jessa were not a Duggar any more, then a whooooole lot of things would have changed the moment she said "I Do."
A question for all of you guys who are shocked by Jessa and Ben getting to know this rappers. I hope this message gets through because I'm very interested in knowing this.Why should one fear for their own faith just when confronted with someone different? If my faith is strong, what am I to fear?Jesus met and shared meals and life with all kind of people, and the his message was very revolutionary because of that, so what's to fear in meeting a Christian rapper?Thank you to whoever will reply, I appreciate it. :)
I really like what you said. Thanks for posting!
Ben should rap with Derrick beatboxing along with him.
I thought Jessa looked very uncomfortable, but was trying to not be rude, I'm not going to listen to Rap or Hiphop. The message of that beat is just noise.
While I understand the criticism of "Christian rap music" as rap has many negative associations. I do also think it should not be immediately dismissed as sinful. What makes rap problematic is really the lyrics, otherwise rap can be extremely poetic style of music. I mean people keep saying that rap music is "worldly" and the Duggars should not be involved with it, well so is reality TV. I mean that's about as worldly as can be. But the Duggars have used their reality show to try and encourage others to live for Christ even though in general reality TV is associated with all kinds if wickedness, drinking, cursing, fighting, gossip, sexual immorality etc.. Likewise it looks like the rapper Flame is using this style of music to reach people in his community who really need the Gospel so why are we so quick to judge?Hearing Flame's story of where he came from to where he is now I think it's a great testimony and reminds us not to judge because salvation is for all. Also Ben said he would like to work in the inner city and I think that's just amazing! So many children growing up in these areas face unimaginable hardships and can use more mentors and good role models. Hopefully Ben will work with some of these kids sharing the Gospel and encouraging them to choose Christ! Lastly I know Jessa was interested in domestic adoption knowing the need in those communities it would be amazing if Ben and Jessa adopted a foster child in need from these areas.
I miss the old 19 Kids and Counting. It was one of the very few things I let my girls watch with me. Michelle is such a godly role model to me in word and deed. The new show seems kind of flat. For those of us who believe that Flame's style of music is not a good choice because of the message of the beat (sensual), this episode just disappoints.
I love the Duggar family, however; it's becoming very obvious that values have changed along with fame. I'm not opposed to Christian rap music, and even like some of it. After all the Apostle Paul said he attempts to reach people where they are currently at for Christ. But it just seems like the "Message" the Duggars once had, is getting lost in all of the changes that most of us would classify as secular. This has never been addressed on the show but it is very apparent to long time fans. I'm not sure if these "new" convictions are more compromise or improvise (i.e. Ben and Jessa with rap music)
Anna ' s two thumbs up thing is getting so annoying, and the off camera guy wasn't giving her the answer, he was probably nodding in agreement .
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