"Mine and Abbie's courtship standards have been slightly different than some of my siblings, although we all get to make the decision on what our standards are."
-John-David Duggar
On Monday's season premiere episode of Counting On, you'll see John and Abbie's engagement. This Duggar couple chose to deviate from the Duggar norm when setting their courtship standards. Check out the preview video below, and be sure to tune in to TLC Monday night at 9pm ET/8pm CT.
Photo/video courtesy TLC
I still for the life of me don't understand why the Duggars side hug, it is totally over the top. I understand that they introduced it after the things Josh did, but to have to side hug your sisters and parents is just too much. I hope the siblings who have children encourage them to show natural affection to their brothers and sisters, and hug their children naturally, it is damaging to be raised with that mindset imo. I would also love to see some of the others hug their intended properly, and yes even kiss, it does not need to lead further, and you can control yourself, many thousands can and do!
ReplyDeleteWe were raised to side hug any male. As far as I know.. the Duggers have always side hugged.. not because of Josh. Side hugs are are un-natural..and are not damaging. That is silly. It does teach a female to be conscious of her body. It's wonderful and empowering. I don't like for any man to hug me straight on.. it's not good.. ask an honest man why he wants to hug a woman straight on... you can "carefully" hug straight on.. if only your neck and shoulders touch.
DeleteAgree
DeleteI agree. These courtship rules go too far. There's no earthly reason why two consenting adults who are commited to each other shouldn't hug and kiss. There's nothing to regret about that.
DeleteI respect that your opinion is different from mine, but do not understand how a side hug is not natural affection and how it is damaging to be raised with that mind set. I love that they don't treat each other and others like pieces of meat to be manhandled all the time. Maybe not what people are use to these days, but NOT damaging or unnatural.
DeleteTheir side hug has nothing to do with Josh. It is a standard they have chosen for themselves and not for any of us to condemn or condone - actually non of anyone's business but theirs.
Delete@9:00 A hug is NOT being manhandled. Side hugs do not teach a girl to be positively conscious of her body. It is NOT empowering. It teaches her that her body is something to be afraid of, that it has only one use and that is to attract a man.
DeleteIf you cannot give the people you care about, including your siblings and close friends, a hug, how can you grow up to handle physical intimacy in a healthy and normal manner? Humans need physical contact and sometimes a hug is what someone needs. It does not have to be sexual.
I hug my sons and sons-in-law. I hug my brothers, my nephews and male and female cousins. I have even hug close male friends, friends I have had for over 40 years. And the pastor has been known to hug too.
My daughter has hug her brothers, her father, uncles and male cousins. And guess what, the boys have even hugged each other and their father.
No deviants in this family, all are well-adjusted and functioning adults.
Anon 6:45 I agree with you and there are examples in the Bible of people hugging and even hugging and weeping on someone's neck. My whole family are huggers along with pretty much everyone we know. We all give actual front hugs when we see each other, we give hugs goodbye, we have held each other and hugged and cried over sad times that one of us were going through. My goodness to think that an actual hug is something deviant is just crazy!!
DeleteAgreed!!
DeleteTime 6:23AM Sat 2/9/19
ReplyDeleteI don't why some people hate this family even when I watch YouTube clips I see some mean comments about them. Deep down inside they don't deserve the hate they get. They are a great family.
Amen, Neddy!!!
DeleteI see mean comments online about all sorts of shows. You should know this show is not alone.
DeleteI agree with you, its ridiculous the things people say about this family
DeleteAgreed!!
DeleteTime 6:25AM Sat 2/9/19
ReplyDeleteAlmost forgot happy soon to be in the next few days happy love day to Mr & Mrs John David Duggar .
I don't understand. If his younger siblings were mature enough to get married, weren't they mature enough to be able to touch their future spouse without fear of going too far? I understood each couple set their own standards, and I admire them for that, but any differences should just be because of differences in their own personal convictions, not because they were less mature. John jmature.they weren't mature enough to get married, and I don't think he meant that.
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree with you. John's logic was a bit strange. He and Abbie did what they wanted to during the courtship and I gather the others were bound by JB and Michelle's rules. Playing the "mature" card was not very nice to his siblings IMO.
DeleteI thought that "mature" line was a bit demeaning to his siblings. If they're old enough to get married, then they should be able to set their own standards. The others complied with JB and Michelle's rules but it appears John and Abbie didn't feel compelled to comply which was good, but he shouldn't pretend it was because they were "mature".
DeleteJohn-David's argument totally makes sense as he wasbound, at 28 years-old, to be more mature than his siblings who got married at 19 or 20 ! He's lived more, he knows more of the outside world and h's had more time to think about it. Of course he is more mature
DeleteThank you! Realistic standards. I hope Abbie gets to keep her career and maybe encourage the Dugger girls to do the same. While raising children is the is the most important career a person can have, there is nothing wrong with getting a higher education. There is a lot more to life than having babies! What happens when the children are grown and gone?
ReplyDeleteI disagree that raising children and being a parent is the most important career. Are teachers, soldiers, police officers, and doctors not important? What about the people who wanted children but could not have them? Is their work less important? Also, what if a person works with children for a living but does not want their own? Is their work not important because the kids are not theirs?
DeleteMost of us don't spend our entire life raising children. The children eventually grow up and make their own lives. If you don't have any other interests you're left with an empty nest and then what do you do?
DeleteFor some people having and raising children IS enough for them. If that’s the only thing some of the Duggar girls choose to do then who cares, it doesn’t hurt any part of anyone else’s life. And when your children are all grown and moved out you can focus on a hobby or volunteer somewhere if you don’t have a college degree, or you can run an MLM, different things satisfy different people.
DeleteOther than John and Abbie the Duggar courtships seem to be so staged and awkward. None of the other couples acted naturally and it had the feel of an arranged marriage brokered by the parents.
DeleteHaving a job and raising children are two different and equally important things. One doesn't exclude the other.
DeleteBut having a job is fundamental to build your future, you can't live without it. While if you decide not to have children you can very well do.
The Duggar girls do have careers, if they want to pursue them! Have you not seen the episodes where they’re midwives? They had to actually go to school to become a midwife. 🙄
DeleteThere will be many grandchildren!! What joy!!
Delete7:18- Whether or not raising children is the most important "career" you can have is a matter of opinion. It depends entirely upon the individual. Not everyone cares to have kids. Some devote their lives to medicine, science, teaching, etc. One can argue that those people are positively affecting way more people than if they stayed home and raised children. I would agree that if you decide to have kids, they need to be your priority. I admire those who will readily admit that they'd rather not have children at all and do somehting about it , instead of having them because of feeling pressure and regretful about it later.
DeleteThey will be so blessed to do things Gods way, not the worlds standards!
ReplyDeleteI don’t believe God says to side hug or not kiss until you are married!
DeleteNo, but the Bible says that it's good for a man not to touch a woman. In the original Greek, the word has the sense of kindling a fire. Where that kindling starts can vary from person to person, so it makes sense to be cautious.
DeleteWhy does TLC keep putting out these "previews"? They are spoilers IMO since there's nothing new on the actual show.
ReplyDeleteIT IS NOT A SPOILER, WE SAW THE SHORT VERSION OF THEIR WEDDING ALREADY ON TLC GO. SO THEY HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR AWHILE NOW.
DeleteI’m glad they change it up a little bit. Some courtship rules were just ridiculous, Joe and Kendra’s specifically. Only one side hug to say hello and then another to say goodbye in a day? There’s nothing wrong with hugging, even {gasp} frontal hugging. I don’t know why they have to make it sexual. Also, not saying I love you until engagement when they clearly felt love? I don’t see the point.
ReplyDeleteI agree, but I think the things Josh did really shook up their family and made them ultra sensative and controlling in some ways.
DeleteWell, when it all comes down to it, I don't think Jesus will chastise them for trying to keep pure. If it worked for them, and they were happy with it, then that's great. They weren't hurting anyone, nor imposing their beliefs on anyone. In the end, they were trying to please God. Can't fault them for that.
DeleteI have to agree. They are older also so they should have more adult like standards.
DeleteActually I remember on the show that the first three married couples did say I love you before engagement then Josia had a failed courtship and this new rule came up, it's because J. B. and Michelle are very overprotective of their children and they wanted to lessen the hurt on their children if it happened again,that shows how much they care, most families just think he's an adult he can take it but that's not always the case, sadly suicides over broken relationships are quite common,a parent can not be overprotective enough, but they had faith that John David was strong enough if it didn't work, being a constable, but everyone knew that J. D. and Abbie were solid right from the start.
Delete5:26- I disagree. Parents can be too over-protective. We can never protect our children from sad times, hurt and disappointment. It's a part of life and resiliency is key. Good times are easy. It's the tough times that help us learn and grow as a person. If a person is considering taking their own life over a few downs in life, they have ongoing unaddressed mental health issues and are in need of immediate professional help.
Delete5:26 If the Duggars are so concerned with their kids getting hurt, they should stop the courtship hype and keep it private until there's an official engagement to announce. They've already had one failed relationship made public that we know of. Some of their contradictions are just so baffling.
DeleteCan you please provide a transcript or summary of videos that you post? Not everyone can play or listen to them. TY.
ReplyDeleteIt’ll be on the show
DeleteYes. I agree. Hi Ellie. Could you please tell us a little more about the episode?
DeleteJohn and Abbie, may God bless you and your marriage!
ReplyDeleteIt is obvious that the two of you had put much thought into your courtship rules, and hearing them brought tears to my eyes. The two of you are wonderful examples, not only to your families, but to other young adult couples.
Thank you for sharing that with us.
I wish for you both a very happy life together.
Their rules sound quite similar to all the others, just a bit more hugging allowed.
DeleteI couldn't see the video. :( Could someone please tell me what the episode is about?
ReplyDeleteHow refreshing!! I think it is healthy to have some pphysical contact with the person you plan to marry. I agree with the kissing and no regrets. I think my courtship rules would be very similar to theirs.
ReplyDeleteThey actually seem in lovversus the couples who look uncomfortable sitting near each-other
Not sure why you would regret kissing someone you love before marriage. My husband and I lived together quite a long time before we tied the knot and it never occurred to either one of us to have regrets about it. Been married almost 30 years now. I guess you do whatever works for your situation.
DeleteOk,did anyone listen to what John David said,no kissing,no touching,and we saw that their hug was a side hugeven though he said he put his arm around her he meant to side hug,even her sisters said no touching,so can someone explain to me how exactly are their courtship rules different,I think the only thing that was different is they got engaged in record time.
DeleteThey act as if "keeping pure" is the secret to a successful marriage. Along with 12:40, I can assure you that's not true. Just as people don't go around bragging about what they do before marriage, people shouldn't go around bragging about what they don't do.
Delete1:06, I think they're trying to be an encouragement to other young people in this "anything goes" culture, not bragging.
DeleteJohn's beard has filled in and looks much better but I don't care for all that "product" he has in his hair. It looks really greasy.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think he had product in his hair, he just needed a shower.
DeleteGuess he probably didn't ask you how you like his hair!
DeleteMy Mom says that guys used Brylcreem in the '50's to get that look. I wonder what JD uses.
DeleteIt's strange that the younger engaged siblings chose to have much stricter standards. It doesn't seem like something younger people would voluntarily do.
ReplyDeleteI think the younger kids were sort of lead to believe that horrible things would happen if they didn’t uphold strict standards. Younger people are more impressionable, so if their parents scare them with stories about them having awful desires, they’ll probably believe them. John and Abbie were mature enough to know that they could loosen up a little without anything wrong coming out of it.
DeleteThey have no choices. It is disingenuous for the parents to pretend that they do.
DeleteI think perhaps the fact john was roughly 10 years older than some of his siblings when he started his courtship he probsbly felt more able to voice his opinions to JB. I know they have said on numerous occasions they get to name their own courtship standards but I am sure it's much easier for a 29 year old man to stand up to his father & voice his opinions than for example a 19 year old woman, especially as the father is head of the household. I do think some of the standards the younger couples set were ridiculous, there is nothing wrong with giving proper hugs (I agree with a commentator above who says it's slightly unhealthy being brought up to think all front hugging has to have sexual connotations, it does not). I hugged & (shock horror) kissed my husband before marriage, but that was as far as it went as we both wanted to save the more physical things for marriage & we were both restraint enough to be able to do this. At the end of the day we are human beings not animals & are able to control ourselves accordingly. I also could not imagine giving my children a proper hug by way of affection, the side hugging looks like you are afraid to touch the other person.
DeleteI don't think any of them follow the rules on their own. Remember the dress code? After marriage the girls stopped following it.
DeleteThey didn't choose. John is pretty much independent of his parents and got to make his own rules.
DeleteI get the impression JimBob gives them a talk and they automatically respect him and goes with what he advises out of fear their emotions may run away and they go too far and kiss(!) before marriage...
DeleteYou are right,thats what happened with Zack and Whitney Bates they did kiss but not planned,I understand their rules are very different from ours,but that's what their convictions are and their decisions to make,I guess to them its like most people talking to their children about the dangers of strangers,crossing the road and so on,its only natural that children go by what their parents teach them even if they change it a bit ,but they are still their convictions.
DeleteI don't have think the younger siblings had a chose because every conversation, every text and every date was monitored, so common sense says it they had a say so about their own courtship rules then there would be no need for it to be constantly monitored.
DeleteThe only thing that I think would be worthy of regret is if you advertise your courtship rules or make a big public thing out of it and then don't follow them, which is entirely within the realm of possibilities. You can work yourself into quite a guilt state over it which is entirely unnecessary. Whatever agreement you have with your significant other should be kept private. You don't owe anyone any explanations or justifications if you're two consenting adults. You're accountable to each other, that's it. The Duggars have made way too much out of this whole courtship deal.
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I were in an intimate relationship long before we got married and it worked for us. We're senior citizens now and still married !
What a awesome why to respect God and yourselves as well...GREAT JOB John David and Abby....I pray for your blessed union.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if they had chaperones?
ReplyDeleteI hope not. They're so mature they didn't need chaperones. lol
DeleteThank you for the video Ellie! I don't normal date myself, I would very much rather court and have certain standards.
ReplyDeleteThanks again!
I thought John was rather unkind to his younger siblings when he said he and Abbie were able to have more physical contact during courtship because they were "mature". If someone is old enough to decide to get married surely they're old enough to be able to make decisions about physical contact during courtship for themselves and not to have to abide by JB and Michelle's "rules" which all the other couples did.
ReplyDeleteIt's not an insult, it's a fact. Most of his siblings were significantly younger when they got married. I'd be more likely to think the younger sibling is being basically prideful if they were insulted by that.
DeleteThere is nothing wrong with kissing. It seems odd for engaged couple not to kiss till they are pronounced husband and wife. Until this family was on tv I never heard of anyone waiting to kiss at their wedding.
ReplyDeleteExactly,that's why he took so long to find the one and thats why its taking Jana so long too so people stop saying she doen'nt want to get married,she has said in a magazine interview that its hard but she will keep on praying for the right one,and she's right she cant just rush into it as she could end up letting desperation make her choose the wrong one and could end in a miserable marriage arguing about their differences which she obviously doesnt want.
DeleteWell John was 28 years old when they started courtship. almost 3 decades with no physical realease, yeah I'd definitely have different standards too.
ReplyDeleteThis is refreshing that they are playing by their own rules. It is silly to me that the younger couples were not even able to give a hug. This couple seems truly in love.
ReplyDeleteActually Jessa and Ben did a front hug when they got engaged too,both couples only did it on the day they got engaged then no more till wedding day.
DeleteOh come on people, don't tell me Jim Bob Duggar didn't have some say so.
ReplyDeleteOf course he did. JD is the family pilot so he got a bit of "slack" that's all.
DeleteI wish John would stop putting all that stuff on his hair, it looks greasy. Now he has curls. Did he get a perm?
ReplyDeleteAs Jesus said in his sermon on the mount, worry therefore about your own hair. Go first and look into a mirror and remove all the flaws from your own hairdo.
DeleteHahahahaha, 12:04!
DeleteThese courtship "rules" come across pretty much like the dress "rules" the Duggar girls claimed were their choice and then they abandoned after marriage. It does appear that John was in a better position to modify them a bit than his siblings were. I wonder if John and Abbie were also able to dispense with the chaperones.
ReplyDeleteI should hope they abandon their courtship rules after getting married! 😂
DeleteIts important to have standards. Thank you Ellie for posting!
ReplyDeleteIt's good to know that after honoring God JD and Abbie could get married.
ReplyDeleteTheir standards were really not much different than any of the rest of them.
ReplyDeleteThey're adults and it's their business. Still VERY modest by today's standards. But they're right, they are a bit older than the siblings and I think what he meant is they have the maturity to handle the add of a hug or arm wrap without it going further whereas the less mature may get caught up. To each their own. Not hurting anyone and are legal, consenting adults... Blessings!
ReplyDelete